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right, yet they fail to see they can just devide their land/money/property/etc by themselves?... they arn't babies, they don't need the government to babysit them ...
example: they have a cake, they each want part of the cake, they cut the cake in half and each take half... where in that do they need the government to come in and tell them how to cut the cake?....
The law cannot change Christianity.. nor is it trying to. Church is not the only place you can get married.Originally posted by A-non-a-mus
against, for if the bill is passed, what are they going to do? force themselves on the church to marry them... ... basically it'll be a bill on trying to change the christian faith... if it is passed, the church I go to, and any good christian church will still refuse to marry them... against the law or not, these laws cannot change christianity...
And they will, if they really want to.they might as well perform it themselves
Okaaaaay, I have no clue what you're trying to say here. If two people are IN LOVE, regardless of gender, it WILL last.so much for traditions eh?
hm... I wonder why they would need a law then... just get their friends together, perform a marrage then go home without care weither or not the gevernment thinks they are or arn't... (they don't even need a anyone with any sort of marriage license ...) ... I mean they can just go up to some guy/girl in the street and say alright you, marry these two together... ... hm... seems to me like a marriage means absolutly nothing to those whom would go that way... might as well not waste time and energy on it... besides, it won't last anyways...
Speaking from experience...Originally posted by A-non-a-mus
right, yet they fail to see they can just devide their land/money/property/etc by themselves?... they arn't babies, they don't need the government to babysit them ...
example: they have a cake, they each want part of the cake, they cut the cake in half and each take half... where in that do they need the government to come in and tell them how to cut the cake?....
Never underestimate the ability for adults to turn into babies, particularly in messy divorces where petty arguments become a part of everyday life.
If people (both homosexual and heterosexual) didn't need the goverment to tell them how to divide cake, there'd be no need for state common property laws.
Providing Lea with quality curmudgeon and lurking services since 2004.
Lea Felon: warned for the heinous crime of poking a badger with a spoon.
Homosexuality is a sin?
"1 Peter 4:8 And above all things be earnest in your love among yourselves, for love covers a multitude of sins."
I was just listing up one thing atop another, oh, this is here, and such and such is happening oh, this is there too, aw the heck with it it's not going to last anyways why bother ... you know... kind of the 'chain of excuses' thing...Originally posted by Sombolia
Okaaaaay, I have no clue what you're trying to say here. If two people are IN LOVE, regardless of gender, it WILL last.
and @nephilim: 1 Corinthians 6:9
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
Uh, I think people need to realize that Christians do not own marriage. Christianity does not own marriage. Islam does not own marriage, nor does Judaism. Marriage in the terms that're being discussed refers to legal marriage (ie, do you take this man to be your lawfully wedded husband?) and the legal protections therein. A church would not be required to marry a gay couple, though some may opt to because some don't have a problem with it, because that's a religious ceremony. Usually, in America, the mayor, judge, and/or a few other members of the county can legally marry a couple. Such a marriage belongs to the human race, not any religion.
exactly, marriage if put in christianity's view you'd need a church and priest, however, if not then you need absolutly no reason to ever need anyone to marry someone to the other... and therefore would need no bill passed anyways... afterall, you can just say, 'I am now married to so-n-so or even some object. It's kind of why it was put in place with the church in the first place, to prevent chaos... but hey, there's no longer any qualification, if you don't believe a certain way, why follow any of the rules right? ...
I thow my hands up at it all, really, if you wish to sin, go ahead, no matter what the sin you wish to do is... It isn't my business to "take the twig from the eye of another, before removing the log from my own eye" (located somewhere in the bible... I think 'romans') in other words, until I am without fault I cannot go judging another of their own (in other words 'never' as no one will ever be 'perfect') sure, I can give advice, and take advice from another, but it is up to the other weither to heed or not...
Proverbs 12:15
The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice.
Now you're starting to annoy me just a tad. I think you could have done without that last paragraph, but the book you're looking for is Matthew.Originally posted by A-non-a-mus
exactly, marriage if put in christianity's view you'd need a church and priest, however, if not then you need absolutly no reason to ever need anyone to marry someone to the other... and therefore would need no bill passed anyways... afterall, you can just say, 'I am now married to so-n-so or even some object. It's kind of why it was put in place with the church in the first place, to prevent chaos... but hey, there's no longer any qualification, if you don't believe a certain way, why follow any of the rules right? ...
I thow my hands up at it all, really, if you wish to sin, go ahead, no matter what the sin you wish to do is... It isn't my business to "take the twig from the eye of another, before removing the log from my own eye" (located somewhere in the bible... I think 'romans')
As for marriage, you don't need to follow the christian religion to have reason to marry. Believe it or not, non-christians, and non-religious people want to marry just as much as everyone else. Why? Because it's a binding union between two people to make them one. When you marry someone, that's (usually) the person you plan on living with for the rest of your life; you don't need to be religious to want that.
Marriage doesn't work like that, anywhere...You can't say "I am now married to so-n-so..." because that is not legally binding. It doesn't work that way. The only difference between getting married in a church and married out of the church, sans the religious part of the ceremony, is the fact that instead of a priest, rabbi, etc (who may be required to be certified depending on where you live) you are married by a certified or licensed public official.Originally posted by A-non-a-mus
if not then you need absolutly no reason to ever need anyone to marry someone to the other... and therefore would need no bill passed anyways... afterall, you can just say, 'I am now married to so-n-so or even some object. It's kind of why it was put in place with the church in the first place, to prevent chaos... but hey, there's no longer any qualification, if you don't believe a certain way, why follow any of the rules right? ...
Just because you're married outside of church doesn't mean that the marriage is pointless, or any less meaningful than if you were married in a church.. and no, you can't just say "Hey let's be married!", you do need someone to preform the marriage, whether it's a priest or a judge or whoever. The church does not own marriage.. when was marriage "put in the place with the church"?Originally posted by A-non-a-mus
exactly, marriage if put in christianity's view you'd need a church and priest, however, if not then you need absolutly no reason to ever need anyone to marry someone to the other... and therefore would need no bill passed anyways... afterall, you can just say, 'I am now married to so-n-so or even some object. It's kind of why it was put in place with the church in the first place, to prevent chaos... but hey, there's no longer any qualification, if you don't believe a certain way, why follow any of the rules right? ...
And you're right on the last point. If I'm not a Christian- and I'm not- why should I be expected to follow the rules of Christiananity? Only I get the feeling with your statement, you were being sarcastic..
yes, I know, and I don't mean to annoy, I just mean to say, it isn't my business to try to change anything or force anything upon another, I guess the phrase 'wash my hand of the subject' would have been more fitting to say... (although they mean the same)Now you're starting to annoy me just a tad. I think you could have done without that last paragraph, but the book you're looking for is Matthew.
As for marriage, you don't need to follow the christian religion to have reason to marry. Believe it or not, non-christians, and non-religious people want to marry just as much as everyone else. Why? Because it's a binding union between two people to make them one. When you marry someone, that's (usually) the person you plan on living with for the rest of your life; you don't need to be religious to want that.
in the same sense no one can expect to win a race without first starting.
Right, but you have to believe something is binding for it to be so... I personally think 'Love'/'marriage'/etc are something extremely speacial that only be obtained through constant and never ending devotion to the other.Marriage doesn't work like that, anywhere...You can't say "I am now married to so-n-so..." because that is not legally binding. It doesn't work that way. The only difference between getting married in a church and married out of the church, sans the religious part of the ceremony, is the fact that instead of a priest, rabbi, etc (who may be required to be certified depending on where you live) you are married by a certified or licensed public official.
yes, but still there is belief in it... otherwise there'd be no need for a person to be there to perform the marriage...Originally posted by Sombolia
Just because you're married outside of church doesn't mean that the marriage is pointless, or any less meaningful than if you were married in a church.. and no, you can't just say "Hey let's be married!", you do need someone to preform the marriage, whether it's a priest or a judge or whoever. The church does not own marriage.. when was marriage "put in the place with the church"?
And you're right on the last point. If I'm not a Christian- and I'm not- why should I be expected to follow the rules of Christiananity? Only I get the feeling with your statement, you were being sarcastic..
also, the marriage thing was put into place with the church in the old testament in the book of leviticus
also, I was semi sarcastic, semi not... basically, why would you need a church anyways? if you don't believe in anything the church teaches.
Which has nothing to do directly with Christianity as constant and never ending devotion is a universal attribute, not one that is specific with Christianity or any other religion.Originally posted by A-non-a-mus
Right, but you have to believe something is binding for it to be so... I personally think 'Love'/'marriage'/etc are something extremely speacial that only be obtained through constant and never ending devotion to the other.
And belief can only take you so far in the legal world...if you marry someone and choose not to believe in the sanctity of that marriage...it's still a legal contract which you must abide by (or face the consequences of you actions) no matter what you believe.
that's good advice...the only problem with advice is that it's not guaranteed to be good and may become a tool to mislead.Originally posted by A-non-a-mus
until I am without fault I cannot go judging another of their own (in other words 'never' as no one will ever be 'perfect') sure, I can give advice, and take advice from another, but it is up to the other weither to heed or not...
Here's some good advice...
Matthew 7:1-2
"Do not judge or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you"
^ Very good advice roog. I always wondered where that verse was found.
Thanks for the banner, Sombolia.
I know plenty of people in male-male relationships. I'm not the first to say it but:
If you are a man and you believe that being gay is a lifestyle choice, try making that choice. For 5 minutes. Be attracted to guys for 5 minutes.
Biologically speaking being or becoming gay is normal. Surely a rare thing to happen. Perhaps a positively silly accident in nature's choice, but still essentially a product of nature. It is in conflict with the numbers of the norm, but that's about it.
Moral, beliefs, and ethics just don't apply.
Using the bible as your tool of trade if you're the bible-thumping type you can practically prove or rebute anything (in your interest) whatsoever by quoting out of it.
But while I do respect your beliefs and religion, you will need to come up with insightful arguments of your own.
I also have the same respect for anyone who's wants to have sex 'just because'. If it's their idea of fun, so be it, regardless of gender.
I'd mew Yes - to gay / lesbian / whatever marriage. Luckily it is legal in many countries already.
And now I should actually participate more on this board, I'm rarely if ever around. =^_^= But I'll go play in another thread. Seeya!
My question is why would you be gay? "I'm going to be gay today!" What the heck? You aren't born gay. It's some immature kid that decided he wanted to be different thousands of years ago. Well, look what ya started, buddy! >_>
Your post sounds like one big logical fallicy to me...Originally posted by Ashara
My question is why would you be gay? "I'm going to be gay today!" What the heck? You aren't born gay. It's some immature kid that decided he wanted to be different thousands of years ago. Well, look what ya started, buddy! >_>
Um, did you read what I wrote 5 minutes earlier?Originally posted by Ashara
You aren't born gay.
no you did not :@Originally posted by Ashara
My question is why would you be gay? "I'm going to be gay today!" What the heck? You aren't born gay. It's some immature kid that decided he wanted to be different thousands of years ago. Well, look what ya started, buddy! >_>
What makes a person straight? You werent born straight, You were born knowing NOTHING of the world, your PARENTS, and TEACHERS taught you everythign you needed to know how to survive...
And sorry to say, but that was VERY rude..
*When I say your, I do not mean you Ashara, I mean every human being on the world.
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
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